INTERVIEW WITH INDUSTRY PRODUCER AT HOT DOCS: EMILIJA DAVIDOVIC

Interviewed by Roy Chadwick

Roy: What kind of films do you like to work on?

Emilija: When I first started out, I wanted to work on genre horror films. But then I noticed that horror films… not all of them but, a lot of horror films are done in a factory style. Most people just do it in 2 or 3 weeks and then they move on. Those are usually films that go straight to Shudder or straight to VOD. So, to me I was kind of just like, I understand this, I respect this but this is not as fun as I thought it would be. Then I started to gravitate a little bit more towards not necessarily arthouse films but, films that had arthouse elements. Films that are visually appealing, surrealist, and Tarkovsky-Esque where every frame can be a painting. I find that to be very fulfilling and satisfying to see as an end result. Or, just projects that are narratively different and creative. When you have a cool blend of realism and surrealism or just a new and innovative storytelling technique. Definitely something that is a little bit more alternative, unconventional, or arthouse I find. 

R: You said that you used to work on more factory style films. What are some of the films you have worked on?

E: Mainly in Europe. That’s pretty much where I got my high budget PM (Production Manager) experience. I worked on a lot of projects in Europe that were service productions. Service productions are usually Tier-D Hollywood projects that already have an attached director, writer, cast, and a locked script. All the funding is completed. They then send this project to a service production company in Europe. So, that means that we as a service production company are going to just take it and execute it. There isn’t any creative anything. So, again it’s factory style. Just get it in on time and budget sort of thing. I worked on 3 projects that were like that. They were basically all straight to DVD. At that time, they were straight to DVD, Christ! They usually had budgets between 3-10 million. Which again for them was nothing. I worked on one, I don’t remember the title but, it was a werewolf film. It was like your typical non-descript European village. It’s a period piece but they didn’t care enough to explain which period it was or which part of Europe. But they just wanted the ‘European Look’. You know castles, ruins, fields, etc. And it was just a werewolves attacking kind of thing. We did this project and it didn’t see the light of day because you know it’s Hollywood and they can survive a loss like that. So, it just got buried eventually somewhere. The next project was a little bit more creative but, the approach was similar. You have like your typical quiet suburbia and there are spirits of dead family members who are becoming malicious spirits and they’re appearing in their household.

R: How do you balance between doing commercial and artistic work?

E: That’s a good question. With experience and connections in the industry it gets easier, obviously. At this stage you just talk to people. After I did a lot of commercial stuff, I was like okay, now I want to do more artistic things. And you just mention it to fellow producers, directors, etc. And you just say ‘Hey, I’m looking for something that will actually make me happy’. So, if you guys have anything let me know and we’ll apply for funding. Actually, I just did that earlier this year. I talked to a director that I really admired and I was just like ‘Hey man let’s just do something.’ And then he and his writer friend were really excited! So, we were like yeah, let’s figure something out! Same thing for commercial stuff. I tend to reach out to people who hire me on commercial stuff to executive produce. And I’ll reach out to them when I need more commercial stuff again. I don’t think there is anything wrong with saying that. I had that problem when I was younger. I was like ‘if I tell anyone that I’m looking for work then they’ll think I’m desperate’. But it’s not that. You’re just telling people that you’re available because otherwise how will they know, right? That’s pretty much how I do it now. Before it was really tougher, not when I was starting out but when I was like 2-3 years in the industry and out of school. I found that to be a really challenging period. Especially, when you’re only freelancing that can be tough. When it’s your only form of income that can be worrying. Until you are established and people know you, you will have to take on all projects that are sent your way. Whether you like it or not.

That’s scary.

Some people are very comfortable with freelance work. I know a lot of grips and gaffers who were just starting out and they were totally okay with that. I was not. And I realised that very soon. I am not comfortable working just freelance and not knowing what my next gig was. I had a day job that was kind of in the same field that I was working in. I was an Events Coordinator just for live events. Honestly, that may not be the right thing for everyone but, for me it was a game changer. I felt confident and stable. I knew I could pay my rent and be a little pickier with projects I wanted to be a part of.

R: What is it like programming at Hot Docs?

E: Oh my God! So good! It’s so chill! Again, all very remote. Not always but I don’t have to be at the office every single day, necessarily. There’s a lot of logistics but compared to production it’s a piece of cake. And everyone tells me ‘Oh this is so crazy!’ And I’m like ‘no it’s not’. But yeah, my work pretty much consists of going through all of the applications for the particular programs I’m running. I sift through them and I do stage 1 of pre-selection, stage 2 of pre-selection, etc. Then I hire an external committee of filmmakers, distributors, and people that I value who are going to judge the docs. Then they are going to weigh in on their choices. We select 50 projects-

Of 400?

Of 400, yes. And again, you have to consider a lot of things, right? Like you don’t want all of the projects to be from Canada. Because that would be boring. You want to address different topics. You don’t want exclusively documentaries about politics. It is important but let’s not have all 50 be about politics, right? Let’s have something about science maybe or something a little bit more positive. You have to consider a lot of things. Co-productions are always exciting! Long story short, we eventually make that final selection and then I start inviting filmmakers. Coordinating what documentation, I need from them and while all of that is happening, I also have to negotiate with contributors, broadcasters, and networks to make sure they will come. Because the entire reason I am picking all of these projects is so that they can pitch to BBC, Al Jazeera, CNN, A24, etc.

R: You said you had a panel of judges obviously, but what are you looking for specifically in a documentary?

E: That’s a good question. There are about 3 rounds of just myself selecting. I had different marks and categories. In each category I assign each film a mark of 1 to 5. The first category: ‘Is this a clear transparent story with a well conceived idea?’ You know, is the idea/intention clear or is it all over the place? The second category: ‘Is the visual style superb?’ Is it out of this world? This is especially important with documentaries because it is very easy for them to be boring. So, I always appreciate it when I look at working progress footage and it’s creative, it’s different, and the people are trying to make something different. To me that’s super important. The third category: ‘Is this an untold story or an important story?’ Is this something that we’ve seen a hundred times or is this something that is quite interesting and different? Let me give you an example of a really cool one: it is a project about several young professionals (25-30) who live in China and decide that the city life is not for them and they move into the rural mountains. And they live super old school and hardcore. The documentary follows their integration into the wilderness and it’s also stunning because it’s the mountains in China! To me that was like ‘Oh my God! I wanna watch this!’ And it was something that I had never thought about or knew existed. So, that’s a good example of what I’m talking about. The fourth category: ‘Is this innovative and creative?’ Mainly in terms of storytelling. Are you doing your typical floating heads format where it’s just people sitting down and talking? Or are you trying to do something else? And the final category: ‘Is there an audience?’ Whether we are talking about this being a TV documentary or a theatrical one. We still need to know ‘Are people going to watch this?’

R: How much creative license do you give a director when you produce their film?

E: I think it’s a very important discussion to have before you sign a contract. It’s a question that I ask almost immediately. It’s funny because most directors are taken aback by it. And I’m like no, this is a serious question. Do you want a line producer? Which means I don’t ask any questions I just make it happen exactly as you want it. When I line produce, I ask for more money because there is no creative satisfaction. Or, I ask ‘do you want a creative producer?’ meaning a lead producer. And that means I will be stuck with your project, beginning to end. I will not charge my usual rate because that would be impossible. Since I will be on the project for longer. But it also means that I want creative input on the poster, on the casting, etc. So, it’s very important to ask that question and to put it in a contract.

R: What do you find hardest about producing?

E: Two things. The first is that if you are the lead producer, you really are stuck with that project for years. And depending on what excites you more, the excitement might wear off and you still have to stick with the project. That was a little challenging at the beginning but then I talked with producers who have a lot more experience than me and they said that ‘you basically just have to come to terms with the fact that you have to finish it.’ Which isn’t very comforting but it is what it is. The second thing is the thankless nature of being part of the production team. As a production manager, coordinator, line producer, producer, usually we are decent people and we want our cast and crew well paid, fed, rested. And no matter how hard you try to make things comfortable people will still complain and they will blame us. So, it’s a bit difficult to not get bitter about that and let it demotivate you and burn you out.

R: What do you find most rewarding about producing?

E: Somebody asked me this the other day. This is going to sound really cheesy but it’s true. To me it’s the opportunities that you give to other people. And seeing what comes out of that. Also, how people feel about working with you. Think about it. If you work on a commercial, it’s going to be out and around for 2 weeks tops. And then everyone’s going to forget about it. I can’t even find old commercials that I worked on online. Even with movies and TV shows I find that the hype is there and then it usually dies out. No matter how awesome a project is. You know, you get to hear from old people you worked with and they say that because you gave them a job now, they’re working with so and so as a gaffer. And that’s amazing! When I started out in film, I always said that I do it because I want to make stuff that I want to see. And that is still what I would say that I most like to do.

R: Do you have any advice for applying for grants?

E: Yes and no. Honest to God and it’s not just me but whoever I ask they say ‘You don’t know.’ You legitimately do not know if the project is going to get it or not. I’ve had projects that were awesome! They check all the boxes, they followed all of the rules, we did everything they wanted and they still kept rejecting us. And you can ask for feedback. You can and you should because why not? But usually, they are very vague when it comes to feedback. And they will tell you the usual stuff like ‘Ontario is the most competitive grant and it’s really difficult to make a choice.’ And you just have to accept it. I think that acceptance is the biggest thing when applying for funds because you will never know. But what you can do is keep applying. Maybe not with the same project but, have 3 or 4 project that are ready to go and just keep applying. Sometimes you will apply with a project that you are not even finished or you think still needs work and that will be the one that gets greenlit!

R: Is there anything that you haven't already done that you would like to do?

E: I would like to produce a massive budget music video for Rammstein and/or a KPOP band. You should see their videos and budgets! But that one is just for fun.

R: Where do you see yourself in 10 years?

E: Hopefully continuing to make difference in the industry in terms of assessing quality. Always merit and quality over politics. Doing more international work, still doing arthouse, documentaries and elevated genre. And managing work-life balance better, working smarter, not harder.